This file contains archived live captions of the open meeting of the Federal Election Commission held on January 27, 2022. This file is not a transcript of the meeting, and it has not been reviewed for accuracy or approved by the Federal Election Commission. Thank you very much, the open meeting for the federal election of Thursday, January 27, 2022 will come to order. The first matter on the Agenda is advisory opinion request number 2021 dash 13. >> The Commissioner wanted me to -- I appreciate that , Commissioner, are there any other personal orders ? Did you say 2021-13 ? I thought I heard -- I might have said 13 in an ironic attempt to keep the record clear. Thank you. All right, submitted in any event by Mr. Matthew P. Hoh we are joined today by him who is able to respond to questions anybody may have. Welcome, and oriented times I would invite you to take a seat at the table but frankly, your office looks more comfortable, we will do this over zoom. We also have from the office of General Council, Joseph Wenzinger and Amy Rothstein. Counsel . Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before you are Agenda documents No. 21-43-A , No. 21-43-B , and No. 21-43-B1 which respond to request from Matthew P. Hoh, the request offers weather his disability benefits constitute income and can be used to calculate the amount of any candidate salary he may receive under commission regulations. Draft B and B 1 do not constitute that and any candidate he may receive. He received one comment on the draft and I am happy to answer any questions you may have heard thank you. Thank you very much counsel. Is there any discussion? Thank you Mr. Chairman, I support Draft A and I think the major difference between the draft is whether we are going to earn the same definition of income while there were just too could consistency, it is not a rigid rule, it is not a hard and fast rule. We have overlapping areas of concern with a number of other government entities, the congressional ethics committees, the IRS, the FCC, and we do not uniformly do it after the other agencies do as we have our own concerns in implementing our own act and regulations. The salary regulations were put into place in order to allow for more and different kinds anymore diverse group of candidates to have the opportunity for run for office. Not every candidate is going to be a millionaire and not every candidate should need to be a millionaire and the salary regulations allow for, as I said, a more diverse pool and that is a great thing in our diverse society. By interpreting the phrase, earned income , in a way that is consistent with that goal of regulation as Draft A does, it would enhance the purpose of that regulation and not to give away the ending, I don't have high hopes that my view will succeed today , I still think it is the better course in moving forward. Thank you Commissioner. Well, let me say a few words. I am very sympathetic to the Commissioner's view, as a matter of policy, the difficulty in so often case is one of law and in my view it is two fold. The first is that perhaps not a hard and fast rule, our governing statute does not specifically command us to have the same views with the IRS so I think we are solicited to be solicitations of the IRS as a body, I think the more difficult point is that it would be one thing to harmonize or understand earned income with some other agency or some minority view of what that raise means in the law but we would be taking a position on the meaning of earned income that, as far as I can discover and is cited by the address of our counsel, was seen to be essentially unprecedented in and that is a peerless way of reading our government regulations and so, in that sense, I am not sure the law allows us to adopt Draft A. Now, laws can be changed as is noted and certainly Draft A, and both drafts, there is a rule on regulation sitting here right now with the law as it is, I am unable to support Draft A despite the Commissioner's well-founded policy goals and I look forward to further discussions down the road. Thank you Mr. Chairman and I appreciate your interest, and I would look forward to working with you on that. That encouraged us to do so and I think that really would be a helpful endeavor if you could do that. I just wanted to give Mr. Matthew P. Hoh an opportunity if he so chooses to weigh in. To weigh in on the drafts or if you would like to share any further comments on this. It is traditional to ask a question so just assume the most open-ended question . Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you Commissioner Weintraub, first of all, I want to thank the FEC for this counsel. The thoroughness, the robustness, the professionalism I have received from your counsel has really been something I am very grateful for, so Kevin, Amy, -- Joe, have been really fantastic to work with, I just want to make sure that was when it out to you all, you have got a great team there. I also want to thank you all for your flexibility, I know it has been rescheduled a couple of times including one time for a medical appointment I had to take so I appreciate that as well. Of course, I agree with draft A, the common cause letter and support of Draft A and my request and the opinion of Commissioner Weintraub, my understanding of it is a replacement for lost income and a sense that my inability to fully work is compensated by this disability pay because of the traumatic injury I have and if anyone has any questions about my medical condition, I am happy to share about that, one of the things I do, I do veterans advocacy work and in that, I have been quite public about my own medical condition so we will not be betraying or violating any medical confidentiality to discuss it. You know, I also understand Mr. Chairman what you just articulated as well as the IRS definition. So, I think if you look at my original letter to you all, my original letter was more aligned with Draft B even though I want Draft A. It was more aligned with Draft B and I say in the original letter to the FEC, you know, I am doing my due diligence here, I don't know what the answer is so let me ask again and I appreciate for all of the work that has gone into this. The one argument I will say and understand the aspects of the law as well as the fact that you are required to harmonize across the federal government , but I will say the IRS has different purposes, different reasons, different roles in its work then the FEC does. So I would make that argument as well, that if there is a way to not be in harmony with the IRS, it would be because the FEC has different purposes than the IRS in terms of submission to the public. But, I just want to thank you again for this opportunity and I am really grateful for all the work that is important to us and if anybody has any questions I would be happened to answer them. Thank you sir, I appreciate your gracious words. Any further discussion, and emotions? Commissioner Weintraub . Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you Mr. Hoh and making your request and thank you for your service to our country. I think the IRS regulations were designed to provide a benefit to disabled veterans and to be interpreted in the most generous way in recognition of their service to our country and I think Draft A would do that as well. Having said that, I move approval of Agenda document No. 21-43-A known as Draft A in response to Mr. Hoh's request. Commissioner Weintraub has so moved, any discussion? I we also bring to the attention of the absence of one of my team members. Mr. Chairman. Vice chair. That does concern me in this case, it is important to all of us and I think my benefit to have us take a second look when we are able to have a conversation but I don't know if there has been any request to do that. Let me ask the question of counsel. I believe we have a clock on this. We have an extension already until January 29, we could always ask for another extension. Mr. Chairman. Commissioner Weintraub. Let me ask counsel, I know we have this procedure in place for both the executive session, I believe it also applies to the open matters, would Commissioner -- Be able to put in her vote on another day? I understand that. Commissioner Bouchard would be able to ask by midnight Eastern tonight by directive part H. Thank you very much. It was my understanding that that was her intent and I do not believe she wanted to hold up the work of the Commissioner. I appreciate it, I appreciate everyone's indulgence as everyone does their due diligence. The motion has been made? All in favor, please signify by saying, I. Opposed, no. The motion fails, vice Chair -- And Commissioner Bouchard absent but subject to her vote before midnight tonight, are there further motions? Commissioner Cooksey. Thank you, and approval, I move approval of document No. 21-43-B1 also known as Draft B1. All in favor please say hi? Opposed , no. The motion passes, one opposed, Commissioner Weintraub and one Commissioner is not available to vote. Are there other further matters in this matter? Thank you very much Mr. Hoh, and we appreciate you coming to us with a very important question. Thank you Mr. Chairman, I think everyone on the committee and I appreciate the opportunity and the thoroughness that was involved in and thank you for the work you do at FEC him it is a great service, thank you. Thank you, sir. The next item on the Agenda is a proposed rule of agency procedure which will be held over to the next open meeting of the commission. Which takes us to audit division division memorandum which is audit number A19-18 . Thank you, good morning Mr. Chairman and Commissioner, before you is the memorandum -- On the packed 2022, there are three findings. Finding one, prepared to make a think depository, inaccurate disclosure of an organization finding three, verified reported activity. We are happy to answer any questions you may have, thank you. Thank you, counselor. Is there any discussion ? Are there any motions? Mr. Chairman? Yes, Commissioner. If we could hold this over, I have got some more information that I would like to review this matter further. Of course, this matter will be held until the next meeting. The exhaust our Agenda. Mr. staff director, are there any management or administrative manager issues they need to discuss today? Mr. Chairman, there are no such matters. Thank you very much, this meeting stands adjourned. [ Event concluded ]