This file contains archived live captions of the open meeting of the Federal Election Commission held on May 10, 2018. This file is not a transcript of the meeting, and it has not been reviewed for accuracy or approved by the Federal Election Commission.


>> Good morning welcome. The meeting for Thursday, May 10 is now in session. I apologize for starting late I got stuck on the red line and was sitting for quite some time. Welcome we have a motion on the chair. 
>> Yes Madam chair I move that we suspend agenda documents in order that we could consider 1822 a  1820 2B and 18  those in favor? 
>> The motion passes unanimously, thank you. 
>> With that objection we would switch the order a bit and start off with draft advisory opinion 20 1806. We have guests. Welcome. 
>> Good morning and say thank you so much for coming. I understand you brought your children with us today. Good, great. Welcome. Give a presentation from the Office of the General Counsel? 
>> Good morning thank you. Agenda Document 18-21-A contains a draft response to an advisory opinion for Miss Gretchen Shirley picked Ms. Shirley asks whether the authorized committee can use campaign funds to pay for child care expenses as a full-time caregiver of her children while she is undertaking to duties. Draft concludes proposed child care? Expenses would not exist and they may use campaign funds to pay for child care expenses as a direct result of Ms. Shirley's campaign. Thank you. 
>> Miss Gretchen Shirley thank you for joining us and Mr. Neil Reiff and your campaign manager hello nice to meet you. Did you have any questions or comments on the draft? 
>> Yes we are supportive of the draft. 
>> Excellent. 
>> Any questions or comments? 
>> Thank you Madam chair. I would like to thank Ms. Shirley for coming in today and for presenting us with this interesting question. Questions like this have been asked a couple of times before and in distantly enough both times previously were from male candidates so this is the first time we have had a request from a female candidate regarding childcare although of the comments we received suggest a lot of people think it is women candidates that could benefit from this. I also want to thank the staff for sis sink and sound draft in response to Ms. Shirley's request. You raise an important issue and we did get a number of comments which is somewhat unusual. Usually when someone submits a request there are not a whole lot of other people interested but your request obviously has broader applicability and comments from 26 members of Congress a former presidential candidate to add this QC groups and a law professor all of whom supported your request as do I. I have a long track record and have been concerned about personal leave issues but the request that you have made is tailored and you have asked for child care expenses directly related to the time that you need to spend campaigning and obviously campaigning is a time and intensive operation. We are not creating a whole sayer carveout for child care you still cannot use campaign funds for babysitting on date night but for the extent that you are candidates similarly situated could use it to facilitate campaign work. This answer should we approve it would allow campaign funds to be used for that. I think at a time when a lot of people are concerned about political power concentrated in the hands of smaller and smaller segment of society a request like this may help to open the door to let it be accessible by younger candidates of color working class people and generally may help to advance a more diverse representative who are more representative of the country at large so we thank you again for raising this important question and at the appropriate time and we are pleased to approve this draft by our able staff. 
>> With respect to the advisory opinion request from Neva for Congress I move approval a draft advisory 2018  six and support of the agenda document eight  those in favor? 
>> The motion passes unanimously. Thank you. 
>> Thank you, very much. 
>> Next we will do a correction approval of minutes and then the next draft advisory opinion Conservative Primary LLC and then announcements about our move in the last item of the agenda. The approval four minutes is there emotion? 
>> There is thank you Madam chair I move for approval of minutes of March 8, 2018 agenda document 1820 eight. Was a favor? 
>> The motion passes unanimously, thank you. 
>> So the next item on the agenda is a draft advisory opinion 20 1804 Conservative Primary LLC. Our understanding is we have requester's counsel here with us today. Good morning. 
>> Petra Mangini welcome. Thank you for being here. First we will have a presentation from the office of General counsel. 
>> Good morning commissioners. Agenda Document 18-22-A and 1820 2B are alternative draft responses to the advisory draft submitted by can conservative primary is a for-profit entity that as will establish a website to allow customers to participate or the. Considering also plans to distribute communications to advertise the website. They ask a number of question about its proposed activities and its interactions with customers. Draft letter a and B both consent conclude that independent expenditures and other communications under certain circumstances as proposed and conservative primaries customers will not constitute a political committee. The drafts differ in draft A concludes that payments from customers will not cut the two contributions while draft the concludes that payments will be contribution. This could become a political community in the future. We did not receive any comments on the request. I am happy to answer any questions. Thank you. 
>> Miss Mangini did you get a chance to review both drafts? Okay. Does anybody have any questions for Miss Mangini? Do you have any comments or questions for us? Okay. 
>> Ms. Mangini would you mind tapping your microphone please 
>> Turn it on thank you. 
>> You said you prefer draft A? 
>> Yes. 
>> Are there any questions? I think we can move to motions unless there is comments? 
>> Mr. Peterson? 
>> Thank you, Madam chair. In draft A the biggest question that you asked is to what extent your activities might make you a political committee? And in that draft the conclusion is that we don't have sufficient facts to determinate regarding your status as a political committee and part of that will turn on the nature of the business model that you present. We ask as was pointed out in the request and in the draft itself we have had a number of requests over the years where we have vendors who have businesses that provide services to users and even if they are political in nature and even if you direct them to one side of the political spectrum or another if it is considered a service for the customer and the organization or the vendor is acting primarily as a facilitator to amplify the voice of the customers that would be or be considered to be a traditional vendor activity and would not result in the organization becoming a political committee but if the organization is primarily leveraging its customers or in this case if it were the case that the organizational primarily leveraging the participants in the straw polls to amplify the message that the group itself has to advance bend that would change the calculus and the also at this point not knowing exactly the extent to which the group will engage in primarily facilitating customers participation versus the extent of the independent expenditures that the group will be wanting to run, those are very fact specific determinations and our difficulty could be an advisory opinion context so that is the reason why I lean towards draft A because I don't feel like I have enough to fax to answer that question. I would say also that question 3 which asked a question about payments made by customers to or would they be considered contributions? That question will also turn on the answer to question 4 if it is a political committee then obviously does payments would be considered contributions. As I said it may not be the most satisfactory answer but it sounds like it is the one that you would prefer and at least on some of the other questions about the reporting of the independent expenditures and whether or not those who make payments to participate in straw polls whether they constitute a group of persons that would constitute a political committee we can provide consistent answers on both drafts to give you more clarity on those subjects. I don't know if there is any response you have on this point I am not asking a specific question but to the extent you want to respond to anything? 
>> I generally do agree and the point is to amplify what the customer is doing the conservative primary doesn't have an interest in who is winning or what is going on it is more or less the customers we represent. 
>> The reason why that question will become relevant is the ad one that was in the request the let's go rhino hunting add, I will just read the full text let's go rhino hunting Congressman Doe in district a does not represent conservatives in this district conservative Riemer gives you a tool to help elect someone who better represents conservatives like you and to help nominate a real conservative to the general election. So, in looking at bats obviously want to draw people to the site and participate in the straw polls but you could also read that that the organization itself has a or is not indifferent as to what the message that is going to arise out of those straw polls. There is criticism of an existing incumbent and a desire to elect somebody else so that is why I said looking at the full range of activities that the group may participate in it seems clear that there is obviously a message agenda that the group itself supports and then it is also an objective also to amplify the voices of those who participate in the straw polls and that under the facts that we have right now I cannot answer definitively on whether or not it would make you a political committee but is it accurate to say that the group itself has a message that it wants to advance that is independent of what the in the the participants in the straw polls whatever message they wait may want to have amplified as a result of their participation? 
>> It could but I don't think that is necessarily all of it the point is they are trying to market straw polls in the polling process and this specifically is geared to a marketing ad for that itself and subsequent messages could be considered separate. 
>> Okay. I have no further questions. 
>> Thank you pick any other further questions or comments? 
>> Mr. Riker. 
>> Regarding the criteria [ Indiscernible - Poor audio quality.] for selecting candidates for consideration. 
>> I am not familiar exactly what the specific criteria is that we used it to be an operational decision to consider primaries but we want to be reasonable to do so. 
>> Does this bring forward views [ Indiscernible - Poor audio quality.] because we know also the nonincumbent candidates [ Indiscernible - low volume ] said not for incumbents? 
>> Again that is the examples they would use but the idea is they are finding there could be at least two or possibly more Republican candidates running against that person so it would fall between those four people as candidates for that person and in selecting these people they are selected based on being a candidate. And as far as selecting the district that is where you would be more specific if someone could actually run the straw poll, make money so selecting candidates. 
>> So these candidates could be then narrowed down to two? 
>> No. If you are registered you will be in the poll. 
>> Any other questions or comments? 
>> Do we have motion? 
>> Mr. Peterson? 
>> Thank you, Madam chair. 
>> The advisory opinion requested 20 1804 I moved approval of draft letter a with the caveat that the answer to question 3 would depend on whether or not the group is otherwise determined have the major purpose of electing or nominating candidates in which case they would be considered contributions but the way it is crafted right now does not make that assumption as of yet since we don't have enough information to reach that conclusion. 
>> Thank you. Those in favor? 
>> Opposed? 
>> Motion fails on a vote of two 22 Mr. Peterson and I voted and favor and Commissioner [ Indiscernible ] voted against. Any other discussion? Vice chair? 
>> I moved approval of advisory opinion 2000 204 B. Those in favor? 
>> As opposed? The motion fails to do to buy Steer and Commissioner Walker in favor Commissioner Peterson and I voted against. 
>> There is a bit of commonality in the two over the less controversial questions would it be useful to you if our office of General Counsel drafted something that gave you an answer on the common parts? 
>> Yes. 
>> We shall do that thank you very much and thank you for joining us this morning. 
>> I have a brief comment on the determinations. All that we are called upon to find on with respect to the ads the obviously that number four add that you said does not express advocacy sounds almost like a prelude to something else obviously if there was more text in the ad that might change the analysis. I will just throw out a comment on the peanut gallery that I thought there was potential for confusion amongst and it doesn't affect my legal analysis of whether it is or not but there are conservative primaries there is a conservative party in the state of New York for example and I think somebody could read this as a statement that even after a primary election this was the conservative party nominating so I just tossed that out as a comment from one reader of the text of the ads. 
>> Okay, thank you very much. 
>> Is all of you know we recently moved to this building and this is our second public meeting here and we are all enjoying it very much and my colleagues and I have decided we definitely wanted to take some time this morning to thank all of you for helping us move and that is everybody in the entire building. We all have two plate one role or another and it has been fun for all of us but we wanted to take a minute to acknowledge people have spent a lot of time out there in particular later to get us to the new building and we know from moving personally is one of the worst things you can undertake but this is tenfold for all of the people and all of the bureaucratic tape and all of the other things they had to deal with the stories are amazing so we will start off by thanking add Palmer and Stevenson the heads of our division here at the FEC and they were outstanding and thank you for leading the charge. We call the CEOs of the mood and to mention for all of the people that I am going to talk to we have a lovely pen sets for each of you and we will bring it to your offices shortly with silver pencil that say Federal election commission. 
>> A little token of our appreciation. The CEOs of the move at Holder and India Robinson who by far did the most work in orchestrating this and it has been going on now for, how long? 
>> Four years four and and five years for India. That is unbelievable. [ Applause ] 
>> Thank you very much for your patience and persistence and your detail and conferring with everybody and all of the orders and follow-up and everything that you have done. It is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much. 
>> Next category of people we would like to thank are the administrative services and IT division. The group that helped in that area the most are Donnie Harris Darnell Rose Stanley Hauser, Pat Dunn, Reginald Watts, Terry marsh, Donna short, Humphreys, Coleman and contractors particularly helpful was Toya Henry so thank you very much to the admin services and IT group. Thank you very much we appreciate your help. 
>> The LRA TT the lease renewal advisory team we have a person from each division that came together and made a lot of decisions trying to make sure that each division was represented in a lot of the different decisions that had to be made and tasks that had to be undertaken so in that group we have Rebecca how, Rebecca [NULL]  excuse me, Greg Baker, Jim Allen, Greg Scott, Kim Thurber, Eileen Neiman, Ryan Lantz, Anita Bailey, Gilbert Ford and Debbie Ciccone. [ Applause ] thank you very much. 
>> We have several working group and you can tell by the title of the working group what they were and we appreciate there are many and I will leave them right now the first one is the construction working group which was at Holder and India Robinson their name comes up in this group. The interior working group Anita Bailey Lauren Lee Wanda Brown candidate Sally Rhett Baker and India Robinson. The furniture working group again India Robinson Pat Dunn Rhonda Gill water, Rhonda O'Neill, Eileen Lehman sorry pick a row Cheryl painter, Laurel Pugh for Deborah Tibbs Lindholm Julian Ross Stryker, Dana Walcott. The IT working group Jim Allen Dave Taylor Garland Coleman Jim Jones [ Indiscernible ] Ryan Lantz and thank you to the IT working group the next working group is the cleanup campaign. Murray Dixon Dan Bakley Erica Lee Jason Bruce Seto Stanley Hauser debited Samuel Stewart Chris DeRosier Marilyn Jones and Dana Brown. 
>> The next working group security working group India Robinson Donnie Harris Pat Dunn and Castle systems. The next working group signage Eileen Lehman, Jim Jones, Joan Allen Palmer, Rebecca [NULL], Pat Dunn, Laura Lane . Thank you and the next working group the budget procurement group Gilbreath Gilbert Ford Pamela Jones. Communications Greg Scott Debbie Ciccone and Jim L Homer. Transition working group, Donna short, Terry marsh, India Robinson Cardin Darnell Rose and last the minimart committee which we have a new way of purchasing instead of a vending machine you can go like to the airport you can pick out your snacks and then you pay on your own. 
>> That working group is India Robinson, Darnell Rose, Christina Vassallo, Tonya and Christine. Thank you very much for everybody and all of those working groups we very much appreciate it. [ Applause ] 
>> We will have a reception but we are waiting on some things. 
>> Yes we will do that absolutely pick 
>> Excellent and thank you everybody. 
>> The next item on the agenda and it is the last as well is the Internet communication disclaimers illustrative examples. So, here comes Jessica. This is a document that we talked about when we passed the and PRM on the Internet disclaimer role  Internet communication disclaimer role and we said then that we were going to work on doing examples and it sounded easy at the time and it turned out to be harder than we thought because you have to size things so that when you size on the paper it is appropriately balanced and you have to agree on what examples to use and there is a never-ending array of ideas so it was harder than we all thought that we were able to come up with a document that we hope will be helpful for people who are in the middle of writing comments for the and PRN and the comments are due for that fry  Friday, May 25 percent of that is coming up soon and we wanted to get this out to give people a chance to do so. A lot of people helped with this and in particular Amy Rothstein and Tom Moore. There is Tom and there is Amy in the back. Tom is with Ellen's office Amy is with my office and they did an excellent job working hand in glove on this in the past few weeks so thank you so much. Also to Nevin and Jessica Selinkoff, Greg Scott K Amy court, Dorothy Yeager and another in particular is Jim Jones. Is Jim Jones here? I think he went away. Okay. Hello Jim we also thought this might be easy on the first day and she has literally been incredibly patient and helpful in trying to put this together for us and we thank him. He has a regular job he kept getting pulled from his regular job to work on examples so thank you Jim, wherever you are hiding. 
>> Any comments from anybody else? 
>> Thank you madam chair and thank you to everyone that was already mentioned. In particular Tom you were in the fat a couple on this project and we thought it was going to be easier. For those in the room looking at their copy on blue paper I think the goal is, it looks different on blue paper and so the white background and colors and that is the way it will go up on our website. There are an infinite number of ways and texts that one could come up with for political ads and we don't usually draft political ads and I suspect people looking at this will tell us that we shouldn't quit our day jobs. But, obviously if we had chosen different sizes different resolution we could have come up with different conclusions. How it will appear on our phone versus on a watch versus on a large monitor and all of these are going to go into the determination 
>> We made some calls on the ads and I think it was important that we do that. Some people may disagree with our calls and that is fine that is what Comet is for. It was actually, I think it was a helpful process internally and I am not sure if just looking at the ads that the commenters will get as much out of it as we did internally the process going through and trying out a lot of different alternatives trying to decide if they could do either or both of the alternatives or some combination or the merging of the two which any of those options are still on the table. But, I also should mention that I want to comment on the draft and without the traffic's they are welcome to do that if they looked at or already submitted a comment on and PRM and they now want to submit another comment they are welcome to do that as well so this is just meant to be made to the commenters however you want to use it and as I said this is a useful process. So, hopefully it will be helpful and will help us at the end of the day to get a stronger view. 
>> Any comments? Without  without objection  I remembered that I had two very small changes I would like to suggest. 
>> These are small and I was reading this last night. I realize there was some things that were unclear so I would like to just fix on page 5, the second paragraph, second send since while an adaptive disclaimer would be appropriate here this does not I propose a change the word this to an example for just as a clarity. And also change on page 7 under alternative a the second sentence while an adaptive disclaimer would be appropriate to change this to this I just want to make sure that the language is clear and that the example could be used. 
>> Those are edits we can put in absolutely. 
>> Excellent. So without objection the Office of the General Counsel could please post those technical corrections as discussed in the appropriate places on the website and to allow people to see this document. 
>> Thank you very much. 
>> Excellent. 
>> Mr. staff a director either management or administrative matters you wish to discuss today? 
>> Madam chair, there are no such matters. 
>> Thank you very much, this meeting is adjourned. 
>> [ Event Concluded ]